Gas Prices

I have a general beef with gas prices to begin with......

Published on March 30, 2004 By KarmaGirl In Current Events

This is probably just campaign crap, but I found it interesting as fuel prices effect all of us. I received an email today from the Bush campaign (yes, I get Presidential newsletters...) and the thrust of it was about Kerry's proposal to increase gas tax (yeah, like we need that taxed). I have no idea if it is real (the newsletter is, but not sure if the Kerry idea is). Gas is one of the last things that we need taxed, especially in California where they are nearing crisis already. Here is the link to the calculator which will show how much the increase would cost you: http://www.georgewbush.com/calculator/

By that calculator, my gas costs will be $521.43 per year more for one of our cars. For all our driving needs, it will be $938.57. I assume that the are calculating that on the current average for gas per state.

Comments (Page 1)

Sam Edney

on Mar 30, 2004

Is there any mention of improving public transport services, or even if it might only apply to certain types of fuel or customer? You know how these things pick up spin.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 30, 2004

As I said, I have no idea of the background of this. The newsletter just pointed out the raise in gas prices, which can be assumed on a consumer level. Public Transportation? What's that?

Jacob Fielder

on Mar 31, 2004

good cop, bad cop, Kerry bad cop, wants to raise taxes for gas, Bush good cop, says no, we'll spend money on military to steal oil from dumbies. Both these guys are gunning for war, they have to ... to ensure the USA gets its cheap oil.. Thing is cheap oil is $30/bbl this year, $35/bbl next year, and so on. The USdollar is heading for the crapper, already one flush started.

russellmz2

on Mar 31, 2004

i am not sure if the same gas tax is talked about but without seeing your bush campaign email:

factcheck.org:

A Bush ad released March 30 attacked Kerry for once supporting the "wacky" idea of raising the gasoline tax by 50 cents per gallon. That was a decade ago. More recently, the man who later became Bush's own chief economist said higher gasoline taxes would lead to "less traffic congestion, safer roads, and reduced risk of global warming" and that raising gasoline taxes 50 cents to pay for a cut in income-tax rates "may be the closest thing to a free lunch that economics has to offer." How "wacky" is that?

the article mentions how bush's guy thought an increase in gas tax 50 cents while lowering income taxes 10% would be a good idea.

they include a snippet of the original bush ad. kharmagirl, can you tell me if it's the same one?

KarmaGirl

on Mar 31, 2004

Nope, it was a newsletter sent from the President's staff. The link that I gave has the same info on it that the newsletter did. (The calc is on W's website)

PoetPhilosopher

on Mar 31, 2004

Nice try, but I'm not going to a site with a URL of "georgewbush.com". Funny.

Listen. As someone who doesn't drive very much, I am sick of paying taxes for road improvements, traffic cops, etc, etc all to SUBSIDIZE your driving.

Fair is fair - if you want to drive, you should pull your weight by paying the appropriate amount of taxes. Another 500 bucks a car sounds fair for me. That's more money in my pocket - money I deserve to keep since I don't drive.

Enough of this transporation welfare.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 31, 2004

Poet, I can only assume that what you just said was a joke.

PoetPhilosopher

on Mar 31, 2004

Bad assumption KarmaGirl.

I went to the site, and didn't see any way to choose the following vehicles:

Feet (walk)
Bike
Light-rail

But seriously - I calculated $140 a year increase from gas. Funny thing is - I pay something like $2,500 in property taxes, $7,500 in state income taxes, and a 7% sales tax, $400 a year just to own and title my vehicle. Let's just back-of-the-envelope it at $12,000 annually.

How much of those taxes are going to pay for roads and such ? My guess is more than $140 given that my state's DOT budget is $2.5 billion a year. So - I am subsidizing your driving habits, and that is not very fair, don't you think ? It seems to me you should pay your fair share. At the very least maybe people will think about driving less or choose a more efficient vehicle if they actually have to pay their fair share. And maybe we can decrease government spending, AND decrease my taxes.

What kind of car and/or how many miles are you driving a year to come up with $521.43 a year!?! Come on... fess up. 25,000 miles a year ? 8 miles per gallon ?

KarmaGirl

on Mar 31, 2004

Poet, do you realize that not everyone can live in a city? Or that there is not public transportation everywhere?

Most of your taxes don't go to the actually roads. Some go to maintenance, but if you look at actual mileage, you will find it small. Most sales tax pays for schools (homestead exempts you from paying typical school mileage). State income taxes also don't pay much for roads. Why do you think there is already tax on gas (which is federal and state).

Also, do you grow your own food and make your own clothes? Who maintains the roads for delivery trucks? What about emergency vehicles? Should you pay a road tax for the ambulance to come pick you up?

I drive a Monte Carlo (averages 30 mpg. Slightly better in summer). I live 55 miles from where I work (the cost in gas is cheaper than buying the more expensive house closer to work). The same size house on the same size land would probably cost at least $150,000 more if I lived in walking distance from work....wait, scratch that- it isn't even possible to have the same size house on the same size land within walking distance to work. Where did you get the 25,000 miles per year? I drive way more than that (about 28,000 per year just to get back and forth to work)- and that's just me. I'm not the only one in my household. I am also not the only one who works here that drives that far. Most people here drive 20+ miles. There isn't anyone who works here that could ride a bike to work (even if they physically could, there aren't any safe routes or bike trails).

But, what really pays for most of the roads, anyway? Gas tax and vehicle registrations. Why would it cost you $400 a year just to own and title your vehicle? I guess I missed the math on that one.

russellmz2

on Mar 31, 2004

ok kharmagirl, they both mention the 50 cent gas increase, that sounds pretty similar to me. so i am going on the assumption that the newsletter (which i don't have) said something similar.

from the calculator (which you say has the same info as the newsletter):

John Kerry has supported a 50 cent increase in the gas tax. Use our calculator to find out how much Kerry’s gas tax would cost you at the pump on a specific trip or each year.

from the transcript of the bush as on factcheck.org:

Bush: I'm George W. Bush and I approved this ad.

Announcer: Some people have wacky ideas. Like taxing gasoline more so people drive less. That’s John Kerry. He supported a 50 cent a gallon gas tax. If Kerry’s tax increase were law, the average family wouldpay $657 more a year.

Raising taxes is a habit of Kerry’s. He supported higher gasoline taxes 11 times. Maybe John Kerry just doesn’t understand what his ideas mean to the rest of us.

relevant quotes debunking the ad from the factcheck.org site:

As we've noted before , Kerry's support for a 50-cent-a-gallon increase in the gasoline tax happened a decade ago, back when regular was selling for a national average of $1.01 per gallon. Kerry's support was so fleeting that the only evidence of it to surface so far are two old newspaper clips in which Kerry complains that he deserved more credit as a deficit-cutter. He never voted for, or sponsored, legislation to impose such a tax, and he doesn't support one now, when the price is just under $1.76.
...
By saying that Kerry "supported higher gasoline taxes 11 times" this ad could give you the idea that Kerry voted for 11 different tax increases, which isn't true. Actually, a close look at the Bush campaign's own count shows that nine of the eleven were about a single increase. Five of those votes came in the manuevering that led to a single 4.3-cent-per-gallon increase in 1993, as part of President Clinton's economic package. Four more votes for "higher" taxes were actually cast against Republican attempts to repeal that same 4.3-cent increase in 1996, 1998 and 2000. (On one of those votes most Republicans voted against repeal, too.) The Bush campaign also counts a vote in 2000 against a proposal to suspend the federal gasoline tax entirely for six months -- which left gasoline taxes unchanged, not "higher." The 11th instance cited by the Bush campaign wasn't a vote at all -- just that Kerry quote from 1994 that he'd once supported a 50-cent increase.

ScarlettAddams

on Mar 31, 2004

Hi, no i don't live in America any more but I my mother's american. I've never known my father. Anyway, custard company. I wrote about it in one of my earlier posts but Ryan got addicted to custard for a little while and blames it for his weird insane depression. I don't know, brothers logic, eh? I just go along with it, makes life easier.

PoetPhilosopher

on Mar 31, 2004

HOLY ! Have you ever added up how many hours a year you spend sitting in a car !?! For that alone, I feel sorry for you, but I forgive you because you drive a Monte Carlo. =D

>>> Why would it cost you $400 a year just to own and title your vehicle?

It's called living in North Carolina. Nice huh ? And actually, it's more. Now you see why I am bitter.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 31, 2004

HOLY ! Have you ever added up how many hours a year you spend sitting in a car !?! For that alone, I feel sorry for you, but I forgive you because you drive a Monte Carlo. =D

Yep, and since I commute with my husband, it is that many hours that we can talk to each other. 55 miles = 55 minutes in my commute, though. I know people who drive a much shorter distance and spend more time driving. It's all relative to where you live. My Monte has heated seats for winter and a sun roof for summer- so all is good.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 31, 2004

russellmz2, I figured it was just election crap (as is 99% of everything you hear lately about Kerry or Bush) but I thought the calculator was interesting, anyway. It lets you see what a $.50 increase would cost if it happened for any reason. (Since they keep claiming that the national average will be well over $2 this summer....yay...)

Jared Phillips

on Mar 31, 2004

I am all for $.50 a gallon PROVIDED that all the funds are spent on roads. Heck, I'd pay $.75 a gallon if we could get an autobann.

"The Autobahn is much heralded for its beautiful scenery and range of amenities. Gas stations and cafeterias are interspersed at 20 to 30 mile intervals, traffic lanes are spacious, curves are gentle, and the medians are well-manicured. It's a worldwide tourist attraction for drivers who like to stay in sixth. "

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