Karma,

The gas prices are understated. The cost of gas has tripled over those years. But otherwise, you're correct.

As for "living wage", however, that's a misnomer. EVERYONE has a living wage; or else they wouldn't be.

The food costs could be lowered substantially as well, if one had to pinch it, and the car payment could be done away with by driving a beater (when I made wages at that level I couldn't afford a car payment, yet never went long without a car!)

But more to the point, who is and isn't making minimum wage? Only a small percentage of workers were actually making minimum (a number I fear will increase as the increased cost hits employers), and most of those were kids and single family wage earners. Every FAMILY I know that's living on minimum is living on TWO INCOME minimum wage...which IS a living wage, however you slice it.

Good breakdown, though!

Well, pardon me for sounding like a heartless bastard, but if someone's making minimum wage, it's probably a good idea to consider a second (part time) job. 60 hours per week sucks, but I've done it most of my life making OVER minimum wage, why should someone making minimum wage be above it? 60 hours a week gives quite a bit of room to spare in the budget!

Who actually makes minimum wage? In all the time I worked while going to college, the only job I had that paid min wage (less, actually) was substitute teaching. (Wait, I'm wrong; I did a couple weeks at a "Christian School/Daycare" and made min wage...haha, that's why I quit, too much work, not enough $$)

Before joining the Army, Adrian also worked a crappy job and went to school. He worked at WAL-MART and still made well over minimum wage.

I think LW may have hit on this before, but I don't think it's very realistic for people to assume that families are living on minimum wages. Most places don't even start with min wage, or if they do, they give frequent pay increases.

In Pampa, Texas, not exactly the "milk and honey" capitol of the world, I have only found ONE employer in the entire city that starts at minimum wage: McDonald's. Every other place (including fast food) starts significantly above.

And given that the median income in this county is about $25,000/year, that should tell you something.

 

(and electricity altogether!)

The apartment that I lived in had utilities included (I think they were too lazy to upgrade to have individual meters).

The food costs could be lowered substantially as well, if one had to pinch it, and the car payment could be done away with by driving a beater (when I made wages at that level I couldn't afford a car payment, yet never went long without a car!)

Or, not have a car at all and ride a bus (not possible every place, but in most metro areas it is, such as my example).  You can also go without a phone (shock! horror!) and eat at about half what I stated if you stick to staples.  Those cover "needs", not wants- you can get "wants" when you work your way up out of minimum wage.

I don't think it's very realistic for people to assume that families are living on minimum wages. Most places don't even start with min wage, or if they do, they give frequent pay increases

 

Where I live, there are a lot of minimum wage jobs (Michigan is at $7.15 right now).  There are plenty of privately owned business that start minimum wage- the hair salon's receptionist, coffee houses, scrapbook supplies...not to mention the baggers and other non-skilled jobs at the grocery stores.

Where I grew up, which was in a tourist area, there were plenty of families living on minimum wage.  It's pretty hard to justify paying an employee at a T-shirt shop much for sitting at a cash register, or paying a somebody who collect ferry tickets much of anything.  But, jobs weren't that plentiful, so people worked where they could.  Heck, I remember an adult cousin of mine thinking that he had a great job at 7Eleven because he made $.75 an hour over minimum wage due to working the night shift.

I have never supported myself on minimum wage, but I worked many minimum wage jobs while in high school and college (college library only paid minimum wage).  None of the jobs that I worked at required specialized skills or even anything that I couldn't be taught in one day.

If the minimum wage keeps increasing, it is going to end up higher than a lot of the unskilled trades are making as regular wage.  At what point do companies have to start charging more for their products or services to cover those increases?  And, what does that do to the people above minimum wage that have worked their way up to be able to afford a bit more?

The only time I ever made the minimum wage was when I was 14, working as a dishwasher at a local dive restaurant.  Every job I've held since then, has been substantially better paying.  And until 4 years ago, I had no degree, no real-world job experience.  What were my jobs?

Age 15 - Gopher at a local computer shop
Age 16 - Farm worker (planting, weeding, watering, pruning, tagging and lab work)
Age 17 - Telemarketer
Age 18, 19 - Computer lab tech
Age 20, 21 - Computer Support/Server Admin

Not a single one of those paid minimum wage, not a single one of those even required a college education.  No special skills either that are magically locked away behind a mythical barrier of class distinction.  The computer stuff I mostly learned in high school, working on school equipment.  It wasn't until college that I actually had hardware of my own to abuse.

How many of my friends worked minimum wage jobs?  Only one or two because they didn't want to spend their summers working so they just took McDonalds level jobs.  Everyone I knew that was willing to work and make a serious effort at finding employment managed to land jobs above the minimum wage line.

I will raise some SERIOUS question to your numbers!!!!

First of all, an appartment up where you live might be $470....where I live, you'd be hard pressed to find an apparement in someone's house for less than $650!

$120 car payment????   If you managed to find a reliable car for $10,000, and you took a FIVE YEAR loan with ZERO % interest...your payment would be $166!  You have included none of the maintenance included in owning a car. (if you did the oil changes yourself it would pretty much suck up that $3 a month)

Insurance sure is cheap where you live!

Even if I take all your numbers at face value, what you're saying is that in 1995, making minimum wage at $5.50 would allow you to live with about $500 a year left over.   Today at $7.25 you're barely scraping by!!!  So what you've proven is that our minimum wage has not kept up with inflation.

One more point I'd like to make.

In 1995 it would be a testement to the greatness of living in America that even an unskilled worker can support themselves, and put a little bit of money in the bank.

In 2007, living in America means that an unskilled worker *might* be able to get by, but would likely sink further and further as they become unable to renew their license and registration, and save $0.

I was thinking the same thing JeremyG, the cheapest apartments where I live are about $500+electricity, and they are University housing and have a 6-9 month waiting list (because they are so cheap). Same with the car payment, in essence you would have to lease a car if you lived this way because you could never save enough money to buy a $5000 used one...unless you took out a loan.

Anyway my point is, I'm glad, shouldn't it be the goal of those who are well off to help those in need. Helping the poorest people in America, what's wrong with that? (even if it is only 2%, everyone is worth it)

Even if I take all your numbers at face value, what you're saying is that in 1995, making minimum wage at $5.50 would allow you to live with about $500 a year left over. Today at $7.25 you're barely scraping by!!! So what you've proven is that our minimum wage has not kept up with inflation.

How did you get $500 left over on minimum wage of $5.50?  That was based in $7.00 an hour that I was making at the time.  $5.50 an hour would be $9038 after tax ($1,882 short of what it cost me to live in that example).

You can still buy brand new cars for under $10,000.  Remember, we are talking "needs" here, not wants (a $10,000 car is a want).  Base the car payment and insurance on a $5,000 car and a clean driving record.  Tell me this- what is $5,000 at 6.5% for 48 months?  That is what my payment was and what you can still have transportation with.  (I'll save you the math- it's $118.57 per month)  I have a $5,000 car (one that I am restoring) and insurance is $827 a year for it.  So....well...I don't know what to tell you.  I am basing it on my real life comparison.  You obviously choose to live someplace more expensive.  You also don't need a phone (that saves you $30) and you also can eat on half of what I stated ("need" type food, not "want" type food).  Beans, rice, canned veggies and fruit, pasta, and ramen noodles are all pretty darn cheap.  (I lived on $10 a week while in college..... cans of tuna, ramen noodles, canned veggies and bread...)

What State do you live in, and what is it's current minimum wage?  Here is a chart that shows you:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

Places that have higher costs of living typically already have higher minimum wages (no shock there).  As an example, Washington has a high cost of living, their minimum wage is $7.93 already.

 

Anyway my point is, I'm glad, shouldn't it be the goal of those who are well off to help those in need.

We already do that- it's called welfare. 

Is it helping poor, or will it make it harder for kids to pay for their own college by working unskilled jobs?  Or, will it cause the grocery stores to charge more for food, which will raise the cost of living for everyone which will put the minimum wage employees as well as the ones above minimum wage is a worse position?

It's just like saying that a school tax increase "only effects businesses, so it won't effect taxes".  It effects you one way or another- it's just not direct.

I live in New Jersey....minimum wage is $7.15, until 2009.

I said "an extra $500", meaning $48 x 12 months is about $500 a year left over.   I greatly disagree that you can get a brand new car for $10,000.   Lowest I see online is a Kia Rio for $11,395 before tax and fees. If you're going to buy a $5,000 car and "restore it" well there's a significant inherient cost that you are not including.

In the end, it just doesnt give warm & fuzzies that 10 years ago the "american dream" was obtainable by *everyone* who was willing to get a job....and you could go out to eat once in a while at TGI Fridays. 

These days, the prospect of the american dream is reduced to living in a particular state in middle-america, and eating rice & beans.

I guess what most people want is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Prices are going to continue to rise in every category regardless of minimum wage increase, and leaving the poorest people behind will only make them poorer. Min wage in the state I live in 5.15 (Wyoming, based off of that link KarmaGirl).

I guess I'm just an optimist, if paying more money to people who need it more than I do costs me some of my wealth, however indirectly, so be it. But I guess most people aren't like that, they want only one thing...more money for themselves.

I use to have your kind of job (had to keep up on all the wage info and adjust rates).  Sure the Skill-less love it!  Most were just adding a second income, collecting money while in school, or starting out on the corporate ladder.  So they really loved those big increases.

And it did filter through others.  Eventually petering out at about 200% of minimum wage.  for the initial bump.

They really loved it - until they were replaced with a machine.

That was 20 years ago.  And no one has learned a lesson yet.

fascinating Karma,   I too used to live on $7.20 an hour,  back in 91 before I got sick.  It supported my son and myself.

Yes it was tight,  especially since his meds were $60.00 a month!  Some days I had to hitchhike to work, as there wasn't enuf left over for gas for the car. 

 I pulled 12 hour shifts at the bus company,  I can't imagine trying to live on that today,  even with no extras,  and just myself....

good article