Shall I remind you that when the U.S. was at it's "strongest" (the late 50s), college grads started out at about a dollar an hour ($7.23 in today's dollars). So are you sure you want to go back to the "good old days"? ;~D

No, I'm suggesting that a crack addicted bum who works at McDonald's when he can be motivated to work and blows his checks on lottery tickets and malt liquor shouldn't expect a wage that makes him COMFORTABLE! Minimum wage was meant to be that.

It takes NO effort beyond SHOWING UP EVERYDAY to get above a minimum wage job. THAT'S the point.

And again, please answer, Jeremy....I'm desperately wanting you guys to show me the bodies from the people who are starving to death on minimum wage. Until you do, your argument is nothing more than finely steamed bovine excrement!

I'll give you credit. At least you're honest. Your goal is for even the poorest in the United States to live a middle class lifestyle. Kudos. Now, if you're making more than the median wage, I expect you to give it to charity. After all, you can't expect everyone else to redistribute their wealth unless YOU start!

i agree

Sadly, that is a nice slogan but goes against history, and economic fact. Minimum wage is the reason that so many jobs have gone to automation (and yes, even to outsourcing overseas). It might help a very few people, but ends up hurting far more as while you can rail against the law of supply and demand, you cannot change it. Ever experiment that has tried has failed miserably. Call it greed. Call it human nature or human failure. The fact remains. A minimum wage (and even a living wage) is a feel good measure that does nothing for the ones it is supposed to help. It merely is a 30 second sound bite that politicians use to get re-elected.

Everyone keeps dodging my points by talking about "I like rice & beans" or "we have t compete in the global market". The REAL fact is that the lack of a minimum wage that is sufficient for a person to support themselves is a sign of how much America is NOT as strong as it used to be.....not the place everyone wants to move to....not the place that is looked to as an example of freedom and opportunity.

Freedom and opportunity would imply that a person is free to pay what he wants for a given job to be done and another person has the freedom to choose whether they are willing to do that job for the offered fee.

I find it rather odd to see someone actually argue that the government forcing people to pay certain amounts and other people to be forced to accept certain amounts to be a matter of "freedom".

If someone wants to shovel snow in your drive way, why should the government be involved in forcing a certain price that must be paid for it? And how exactly is forcing price controls a form of "freedom".

You also totally ignored the economic reality -- you force employers to pay Americans more than they are willing to pay unskilled labor then they will turn to foreign sources.

Honestly, i try my best to find the cheapest market around.and i try to get them when they put them on sale but these are the regular prices. the same also apply to the cost in 1970's. and who said rice and beans are not good enough for anyone? I love rice and green beans and peas too. are you kidding. believe it or not whole grain around here is more expensive than white bread. but i dont like whole grain.



of course it is not. there is 35+ yrs technology difference ..... in everything

but that is what we live with.

Good point Brad! I wonder if all these proponents of a "living wage" pay their babysitters, the kid who mows their lawn, or as you pointed out, the kid who shovels their driveway that "living wage".

I also wonder if they make sure they tip their servers enough to equal that "living wage"?

Good point Brad! I wonder if all these proponents of a "living wage" pay their babysitters, the kid who mows their lawn, or as you pointed out, the kid who shovels their driveway that "living wage".

I also wonder if they make sure they tip their servers enough to equal that "living wage"?

Actually, that was pretty much Jeremy's reply when he trashed the whole idea of rice and beans.

I buy whole grain bread for 83 cents a loaf, TA. And I have found similar deals in almost every city where I've lived.

And even at 83 cents a loaf, we could save more by baking our own bread.

Our time is limited, though, so we settle. For now.

Another option for the bread...and a little bit cheaper than buying fresh loaves...buy the frozen loaves. WM has a brand...forgot the name and I believe they have two sizes...one with three loaves and another with five or six. Ive made a couple of loaves and they always turn out pretty good. Haven't mastered the "cut the loaf without squishing it flat" technique yet however.

Draginol Wrote:

Freedom and opportunity would imply that a person is free to pay what he wants for a given job to be done and another person has the freedom to choose whether they are willing to do that job for the offered fee. I find it rather odd to see someone actually argue that the government forcing people to pay certain amounts and other people to be forced to accept certain amounts to be a matter of "freedom". If someone wants to shovel snow in your drive way, why should the government be involved in forcing a certain price that must be paid for it? And how exactly is forcing price controls a form of "freedom". You also totally ignored the economic reality -- you force employers to pay Americans more than they are willing to pay unskilled labor then they will turn to foreign sources.

Again, you decide to comment in a way that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.   I was not talking about economic reality...i'm talking about perception.   It's not that enforcing minimum wage creates more "freedom", its that having a solid minimum wage gives us, as a country, a certain amount of reverence and compassion from other nations (and their citizens), and makes america a desirable place to move to.    Reverence and compassion are two things America is going to need a lot of in the new "global economy".

Yeah, because we pay less than Indonesia, Haiti, and a buncha third world countries, Jeremy. The homeless die on our streets in the millions per year.

Oh wait. They don't. We ARE taking care of our wage earners.

Do you have to wear special slacks to talk out of your rear end, or will off the shelf WalMart slacks do?

Reverence and compassion are two things America is going to need a lot of in the new "global economy".

If that were true, India and China would be tanking it, and ostracized by the global community.  But the reality is the opposite. 

 

I said "an extra $500", meaning $48 x 12 months is about $500 a year left over. I greatly disagree that you can get a brand new car for $10,000. Lowest I see online is a Kia Rio for $11,395 before tax and fees. If you're going to buy a $5,000 car and "restore it" well there's a significant inherient cost that you are not including.

I know where you got the $500- my point was that the $48 an hour was due to working at $7.00 an hour, which was ABOVE the minimum wage of $5.15 an hour back then.  Could I have even thought about living on minimum wage then?  No.

Can't find a new $10,000 car?  I have a car that's 2 years old that I bought new for under $10,000.  What was it?  A Saturn Ion.  Sure, the sticker price was higher, but I waited until they had offers, and I bought a last years model (still new) that didn't have any bells and whistles on it.  Ended up paying $9,500 for a $12,000.  I guess if people are too stupid to shop and get deals, then it's their own fault that they have money problems.

a certain amount of reverence and compassion from other nations (and their citizens), and makes america a desirable place to move to.

Uh...why would we want to encourage people to move here if we already have issues with welfare, unemployment and health care?  Do we want to encourage a higher population?

I think that you are totally missing the point of this article.  It was written to show that you can LIVE on minimum wage.  Is it a comfortable living?  No.  But you can live on it.  It can pay for food and shelter.  Anything that is past the necessities is a WANT.

But, you have really helped to prove my point- many Americans can not differentiate what is a "need" and what is a "want".  If you need transportation to get to work (no public) then a car is a need- a $10,000 car is a want.  Hungry?  Basic food is a need- going out to eat isn't just a want, it's a LUXURY.

Man, the more I read some of these comments, the more it really shows that America (in general) is out of touch completely.

We eat rice and beans a couple of times a week. But apparently us "po'folk" ain't up to your standards, and as long as we're not eating Beef Wellington

lol, I have a "beans and rice" dish for lunch (it's also for dinner tonight).  I dressed it up with a few veggies (high class beans and rice!).  It's nutritional and tasty!  It also saves on the grocery bill.  Even if you have extra money to spend, why waste it? 

The co-op that I go to now and then has a "hungry man meals" sack of groceries.  It's an interesting concept.  What they do is place a whole week of staples in a bag and sell it for $15.50.  If you want, you can buy a bag and donate it to somebody who doesn't have any money, or you can just buy it for yourself.  It consists of beans (dried), rice (large bag which is probably more than a weeks worth), dried milk, peanut butter, a box of saltines, 7 cans of veggies and 7 cans of fruit.  It also gives you the option of having a small jar of instant coffee or a small box of tea.  As I see it, that covers "needs", and would only cost $62 a month (that gives an extra $113 to the budget of somebody living on the $7.25 an hour scenario). 

Are Americans really getting so spoiled that "needs" consist of $10,000 cars, the ability to eat out, and even having phones?  I grew up with the understanding that food and shelter were needs, anything above that was something to work hard and get because I wanted it.