Say "No" to fur......

Published on March 30, 2005 By KarmaGirl In Current Events

I have slowly been going back to being a vegetarian over the past year, and have finally been on it for about 2 months. I eat a vegetarian diet for health reasons. However, with doing so, it's hard not to start seeing the ethical side of the meat and fur industry.

This article could be labeled as adult content due to the video that I am about to link to. It is a video that greatly disturbs me. It shows an animal being skinned alive for fur. If you have a weak stomach, or get nightmares easily, please do not watch it. It is implied that it will be used for J.Lo's fur line. This is the link:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=j_lopez&feat=j_lopez&pos=fp1

There is no reason for modern man to use fur. Fur is nothing more than a useless luxury. Animals are raised specifically for fur and killed in brutal ways before their hide is harvested. The bodies of these animals are typically not even used for food (unlike cow hide).

But, I have a much wider ethical issue with fur and the mass slaughters in the meat industry. If people become numb to killing animals in violent ways, or harvesting hides from living animals, is it really that big of a stretch to start doing harmful things to humans? If a person can club a screaming, helpless animal to death, what keeps them from stepping over the line and doing it to a human? (There is a book called "slaughterhouse" that talks in depth on the meat industry and also talks to some of the people who left the meat industry after being desensitized to the violence. You can read excerpts of the book at: http://www.goveg.com/feat/r-shouse3.html However, make sure you don't read it when eating or directly after eating.....)

These fur farms are typically not in the US, so we can't exactly enforce any laws. However, we can stop the need for the farms by simply not buying fur.

Comments (Page 2)

Gideon MacLeish

on Mar 30, 2005

Personally, I believe in resource management. I'm not opposed to the production of fur, provided the meat of the animal is also used (which is why I don't oppose leather,among other things). While meat is one of the most cost inefficient ways of obtaining protein (chicken and fish excepted), most people in this country at least are poorly educated as to ways to combine proteins to get complete proteins from vegetable sources.

Being vegetarian is a good thing, don't get me wrong. But if everyone else suddenly adopted the same standard, the environmental impact would be tremendous. Most of our domesticated animals have foraging and self sufficiency traits bred out of them to simplify the factory farmed, domesticated life many of these animals endure, and they would not fare well if we suddenly freed them to live on their own because we stopped using them for meat. Not to mention, we've decimated the populations of apex predators, so more would die of starvation than currently die from the butcher's knife.

But enough digressing. I agree animals should be slaughtered in as humane a fashion as possible, but I am equally suspect of anything that bears the PETA name. Remember, these are the same folks that tried to get the Green Bay Packers to change their name to the "Green Bay SIX Packers", to delete the reference to the packing industry and because apparently drinking and driving is, to them, a more intelligent hobby than butchering animals.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 30, 2005

Do you wear leather shoes?

What does that have to do with fur? Do you think a cow was slaughtered only for its hide?

It's not like it's ~~wrong~~ to eat meat.

I didn't say it was.

You are both missing the point of the article. It's about FUR.
It's not about eating meat or cow hide (which is a by-product of slaughtered cows used for meat).

If people want to eat meat, that is their decision. I think that the current conditions are a bit nasty, but people have been eating mass slaughtered meat for a long time. People also have been using leather for a long time. Cows are not killed just for leather. When a cow is slaughtered, almost everything is used in one form or another. (Down to their bones being used in the sugar industry)

What I have a problem with is farm raising animals to only use their fur. Do you go to the market and buy Fox meat, or Chinchilla meat? No, that's because the rest of the animal is discarded.

There is a HUGE difference between the beef/cow leather industry and the Fur industry. You can not compare the two. I don't agree with everything that the beef industry does, but I also can not compare them to the Fur industry.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 30, 2005

Sorry----got off-topic there; I don't agree with using fur, either. Leather is another thing, though....I see it more or less as a by-product of the beef industry. The pelts are made into jackets. They fill my belly and cover my back. Nothing wrong with that, since the whole animal is being used, right?

I totally agree.

Most Native Americans believe that it is OK to slaughter an animal only if you give it respect and use as much of the animal as you can. I think we could learn from that.

ParaTed2k

on Mar 30, 2005

Read the other links, add something constructive, or please quit commenting because you are adding nothing but hate- and the world already has enough.

Sorry, I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier.

What does that have to do with fur? Do you think a cow was slaughtered only for its hide?

Yeah, what does skinning one animal have to do with skinning another... ;~D

How can there be a logical discussion, if you're going to sit there and defend the use of leather, while espousing telling us all we need to "Say "No" to fur". Animal skin is ok, as long as it's been tanned and cured?

No, Karma, I have never even disliked you, much less "hated" you. I'm just trying to understand how you can cite PETA, but not align yourself with them; Claim the virtues of being a vegatarian, but then defend leather.

Killing animals for our own comfort is either wrong, or it isn't. If it is wrong then ALL killing for our comfort is wrong, if not, then what is your point?

Rightwinger

on Mar 30, 2005

Remember, these are the same folks that tried to get the Green Bay Packers to change their name to the "Green Bay SIX Packers", to delete the reference to the packing industry and because apparently drinking and driving is, to them, a more intelligent hobby than butchering animals.

I heard it was the Green Bay "Pickers"...in reference to the farming industry in Wisconsin.
They were offended by the "Packers" because of the meat-packing industry it "honored". What a buncha thin-skinned loons.

KarmaGirl

on Mar 30, 2005

Sorry, I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier.

So, first you claim it is "PETA" now you claim any site is "stupid". Why are you even reading this article or commenting? you obviously have already decided that there is no "problem", so why even respond? If you won't read about it, and won't look at the pictures (even if they are from sites you have never heard of) then what's the point? You're simply ignoring it. If you don't have a problem with it, then fine. Keep ignoring it. There are plenty of people who say the Holocaust didn't happen, too, and that the pictures aren't real. Ignorance is bliss.

Claim the virtues of being a vegatarian, but then defend leather.

I think you need to re-read why I am a vegetarian. " I eat a vegetarian diet for health reasons. However, with doing so, it's hard not to start seeing the ethical side of the meat and fur industry."

Killing animals for our own comfort is either wrong, or it isn't. If it is wrong then ALL killing for our comfort is wrong, if not, then what is your point?

That's an easy justification, isn't it? But, there is a huge difference. People eat the meat of cows, and the cow isn't typically tortured before it is killed. The cow is used for FOOD, and it's skin is a byproduct. Animals raised for fur are raised for fur. The fur isn't a byproduct, and their bodies are wasted. Killing a cow for food is not "comfort". Killing a Chinchilla for the small pelt it has is.

Can you give a valid reason for the fur industry to exist?

Melissa176

on Mar 31, 2005

no fur? ok... then dont eat ice cream, use band aides, adhesive, buttons, many kinds of shoes, gelatin capsules, premarin or prem pro, loads of furniture, no vaccines either, no dice, no shampoos or conditoners, no soaps, no lotions, no anti age cream, and TONS more items , http://www.ivu.org/faq/animal_derived.html
for a more complete list... and for the horses, go to, pmurescue.org, and, hey where are all the vegans and anti fur ppl when recently our mustangs were ok'ed for slaughter and sale to mexico? or how about monkeys killed livers disscected made into a slushy and given to everyone over the age of 2 in this country and MORE for the polio vaccine...

ParaTed2k

on Mar 31, 2005

So, first you claim it is "PETA" now you claim any site is "stupid".

No, I said, Sorry, "I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier." If you agree with the anti abortionist tactics of showing pictures of, or carrying around actual aborted fetuses, then I can see why pictures like those at your linked website aren't stupid.

Why are you even reading this article or commenting?

I read the article because your headline caught my interest. I replied because, last I checked, part of what we do here at JU is read each other's articles and either reply or not. You may use your right to delete anything I post in your blog if you'd like.

Animals raised for fur are raised for fur.

So it is fur you detest, not the fact that animals die for it? Animals die for a lot of reasons, including for our food.

Can you give a valid reason for the fur industry to exist?

Yes, to provide a legally available product to those who choose to buy it... Just like the cattle industry.

If you are against the fur industry, great! Speak out against it, write articles and post links to your heart's content. Remember though, the same rights that allow you to do so, allow those of us who don't agree, to disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My mind is like a steel trap: Rusty, and Illegal in 37 states! ;~D

Melissa176

on Mar 31, 2005

in addendum... mohair does not have to be harvested cruely, I own a few and would NEVER harm them because I WANT them to grow more hair/wool.. my sheep too, are sheared with VERY safe clipper blade4s, and NEVEr get cut up.. I want them tooto grow me more wool... it dosent make sence to be careless with clipping the wool... it opens the animal up to infection and fly strike... deadly both of them, as well as harmful to the fleece. I also raise Angora rabbits, and with the sheep, rabbits and goats, it would be ttly INHUMANE not to clip them before the onset of summer. provide tons of shade and cool water... not to mention fans and for the bunnies, frozen water bottles... I feed my animals, and consuider each one VALUABLE... injuring them, leaving them in misery in the hottest time of the year, wastes my money my time and the energy of a valuable life. not a good Idea. dont like how the aussies treat Merino sheep?? then buy from US small farm flock owners. it tells us , the small flock owner that our humane treatment is valuable. that having 10, we can touch every day, where every single one is ttly important, is important enough to you you will support those efforts. I am a hand spinner, my wool is so soft, and Im so proud of my girls who give it to me... when we do have lambs, I offer the ram lambs cheaper to ppl who will keep them as pets ... and I make anyone buying them for ... less ... humane reasons .. financially too painful to afford.
and, that is only in application to the lambs. I keep whatever bunnies i breed.. from birth till I hope late in life death... or sold to a great show or pet home.
u want humanely treated bnatural products? support US wool farms... hand spinners almost always have small flocks, sell wool, clothes that are hand made hand spun etc... I think it is WAY better ythan fur, I can wear my blk angora does show coat from last year , and hold her on my lap brushing her today... best for everyone,, and nothing softer than angora.
abcwoolcrafts.mralter.com/

KarmaGirl

on Apr 01, 2005

Not all shampoos, conditioners or other personal care items contain animal products or were tested on animals. That is a bit extreme.

Obviously there is still confusion as to the point of this, as ParaTed doesn't seem to understand, either.

If an animal is killed (preferably humanely) and it is almost 100% used, I have a hard time justifying why it is "wrong". (Yes, there are unethical ways that animals are killed, but that is different). For instance, when a pig is slaughtered, almost 100% of it is used- all the way from it's blood being harvested for some ethnic foods to it's thyroid being used for medicine to it's bones being used for different uses.

A Chinchilla is raised then killed only for its fur. The body is just thrown away.

There is a *huge* difference. If you are killing something for food, then using the rest of it for other purposes, the death of the animal is purposeful (ie: is used to sustain human life, then we use the rest for other things). If you kill an animal to gets it's fur to make a pretty coat, that is just useless.

I don't find ethically slaughtering animals for human survival "cruel". Raising animals and slaughtering them for vanity is.

A quote that I find true:

ParaTed2k

on Apr 01, 2005

I get what you're saying fine Karma. Basically, as long as you can justify it, it's ok. If it is something you just wouldn't do, it's not.

I have to disagree with Mr. Kant here. The most devout animal lover I have ever known, is on parole from a 5 to life prison sentence, for "indecent acts with a minor".

The ironic thing about you and I in this thread is, we usually agree and get along more that this thread would make it seem.

KarmaGirl

on Apr 01, 2005

The ironic thing about you and I in this thread is, we usually agree and get along more that this thread would make it seem.

Yeah, well how am I supposed to be a points whore if I don't fight with somebody now and then?

JillUser

on Apr 01, 2005

"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant (who is a German Philosopher, if you don't recognize the name)

I have to disagree with Mr. Kant here. The most devout animal lover I have ever known, is on parole from a 5 to life prison sentence, for "indecent acts with a minor".

Just for the sake of participating in an argument (

), ParaTed, you are talking about the inverse of what Kant said. He didn't say, because you are good to animals you are good with mankind.

I am not against eating meat or using animal products but I must say I absolutely can't understand how sick you must be to skin an animal alive. There is just no explaination for that! You have to have some worms crawling around in your head to do something like that!

I have never had any interest in fur. I have no use for PETA either. They rarely go about things in a reasonable manner and often show animals more respect than people.

The cruelty part is what needs to be done away with. The wastefulness is upsetting but my main concern is the cruelty. I think that is KG's main concern too.

ParaTed2k

on Apr 01, 2005

Yeah, well how am I supposed to be a points whore if I don't fight with somebody now and then?

Happy to participate in your whoring!! ;~D

The cruelty part is what needs to be done away with. The wastefulness is upsetting but my main concern is the cruelty. I think that is KG's main concern too.

Agreed, even as a hunter, fisherman (and one who ran a trapline when I was young), I don't agree with outright cruelty either. But it was a fun discussion!!!

JillUser

on Apr 02, 2005

Good show ParaTed!

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!